With more than 30 years’ experience in the whisky industry, Dr Rachel Barrie was the first female Scotch whisky Master Blender inducted into Whisky Magazine’s illustrious Hall of Fame.
She joins us on the Drinks Adventurews podcast for this exclusive interview recorded when she was in Sydney recently for the launch of the new Glenglassaugh core range.
Also known as the ‘First Lady of Scotch’, Rachel studied chemistry before landing a job as research scientist at the Scotch Whisky Research Institute.
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She then moved into production at The Glenmorangie Company, becoming Master Blender in 2003.
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During that time Rachel also managed the stocks for the Scotch Malt Whisky Society, before moving to Morrison Bowmore Distillers with Bowmore, Auchentoshan and Glen Garioch, and subsequently working with Laphroaig and Ardmore.
Since 2017, Rachel has been Master Blender for Brown Forman’s Single Malt portfolio, comprising Glendronach, Benriach and Glenglassaugh – distilleries we previously explored on this podcast with global brand ambassador Stewart Buchanan in 2022.
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Dr Rachel Barrie, Scotch whisky master blender: Full transcript
RACHEL BARRIE: Thank you for having me.
JAMES ATKINSON: You’ve worked at some amazing distilleries over the course of your career, and I think you’ve been at, you know, with Brown-Forman since 2017. What was it that appealed to you about the opportunity of working with the three distilleries in the Brown-Forman portfolio?
JAMES ATKINSON: Well, Dr. Rachel Barrie, thanks so much for joining us on the Drinks Adventures podcast.
RACHEL BARRIE: I’ve left the best to last. I can only say that. I mean, obviously, I’ve worked with virtually all distilleries in Scotland at some point, whether at the Scotch Malt Whisky Society or with other brand owners, and yeah, I got a tap on the shoulder and was asked To, you know, go for the interview and yeah, with Glendronach, which was my Dad’s favorite dram.
I was born at Glendronach, or just down the road. It was just a no brainer for me. And also, you know, the other two distilleries, I learned to surf at Sandend Bay when I was a girl, at Glenglassaugh. So yeah, it was time to kind of go back home, to really immerse myself. Back into the sense of place where I was brought up because I, you know, obviously worked with distilleries from all other regions during my career.
JAMES ATKINSON: Were you aware that you were growing up around the whisky industry from a very young age?
RACHEL BARRIE: I was aware probably from my teenage years that distilleries were very close by. My dad collected whisky and gave me a little taste at Hogmanay and, you know, I’m very aware of it. More aware of farming, I would say, and the barley.
I was a young farmer and was very aware of the richness of the landscape in Aberdeenshire. That was kind of the main thing. And then obviously distilled surrounded by distilleries. So, yeah.
JAMES ATKINSON: And you mentioned your stint at the Scotch Malt Whisky Society. I mean, that must have been a pretty sort of unique role to have had within the industry because of, as you said, just the fact that you will get exposure to so many different whiskies from so many different distilleries. It must have given you a really great oversight of the Scotch whisky industry.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, I started with other brands, so I was with Glenmorangie or Ardbeg. for 15 years and then they actually bought the Scottish Malt Whisky Society. So I did it kind of as part of my role when I was master blender for those brands, but also looked after the stock and the past selections and the panel and everything for the Scottish Malt Whisky Society as well.
So that just meant that I kept my knowledge and managed to obviously taste whiskies from. all around the country. And they also had some from other parts of the world as well. So, you know, from Japan and Canada and the US. So, yeah, it was an interesting journey. And then I worked with Suntory and worked with some Islay Malt whiskies.
And again, that gave me exposure of different countries, whiskies, as well as other regions.
Brown Forman’s Scotch whisky portfolio
JAMES ATKINSON: Maybe you could just talk us through the three distilleries that you’re working with now, you know, with reference to the regions and the geography in which they’re located. And I’m really interested to know, to what extent do you think that the resulting whiskies are a reflection of the place from, you know, in which they are crafted?
RACHEL BARRIE: I think the more I experience whisky, the more I truly believe that the location of the distillery makes a huge, huge impact. And I can say that just obviously looking at, you know, distilleries from around the world. But in reference to the three distilleries I work for, they’re literally in a triangle in the northeast of Scotland.
So they’re all kind of similar, you would think, geographically, because they’re only like 45 miles apart. in that triangle. However, they are completely different because the terroir, the landscape of Glendronach is down in a valley. It’s very sheltered from the changing elements. Then you have Benriach, which is between the mountains and the sea, and it’s actually really calm.
You know, we get lots of blue skies. And then at Glenglassaugh, it’s really quite elemental, and the seasons are constantly changing. The air, the water quality, the influence of the landscape undoubtedly has a part to play.
JAMES ATKINSON: And in what sense? I mean, obviously there’s the water composition, but is it then mostly to do with the environment that the barrels are in while they’re maturing?
RACHEL BARRIE: Yes, and it’s also to do with the fermentation as well. So, for example, at Glendronach, we have nine Scottish larch washbacks. So that wooden fermentation leaves it more open to kind of the natural microflora. As well as the distiller’s yeast in creating the flavour. And similarly at Glenglassaugh, they have wooden wash backs.
They are so close to the sea. The distillery couldn’t get any closer to the sea without actually being in the sea. It’s right on the coast on the beach. And it’s just like Sandend Bay is just like Bondi Beach. Seriously, a smaller version of Bondi Beach because you can surf there. That influences the atmosphere for fermentation, but then in addition for maturation.
So I’m a very strong believer. And, not every distillery matures beside their distillery. However, we have maturation warehouses at each of our distilleries and we’re building more so that we can, you know, mature all our coastal malts, Glenglassaugh at the coast, mature all of our more inland valley malt, Glendronach at Glendronach.
So it really amplifies the real, true, authentic style of the single malt.
JAMES ATKINSON: Yeah, because there is certainly a movement among some of the larger companies to sort of co-locate maturation isn’t there. And I suppose in some circumstances, you know, in the case of Islay, it’s kind of done for reason of practicality.
You know, there’s not, from what I believe, there’s not sort of the same available space to, to add more maturation capacity on the island.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, but every distillery, everything makes a difference and every distillery is different, especially with Benriach. We have almost like three distilleries under one roof in that we make unpeated whisky, so it’s our classic fruit- forward style.
We also have a season, which is right now in September, where we use smoked malt, so it’s just infused with smoke and that creates that diversity of style that I get to play tunes with. And then we have triple distillation as well in the middle, so we kind of have these. three different styles that we can play with, but they still have that very distinct Speyside style, which makes them, even with a peated influence, very different from Islay.
JAMES ATKINSON: Now, when you started back in 2017, what confronted you in the warehouses at those distilleries when you arrived? You know, I’ve heard that the Benriach stocks in particular were quite vast and eclectic.
RACHEL BARRIE: Very, very, very eclectic. I mean, Warehouse 13 in particular was like just being a child in the sweetie shop because there were so many different sizes of casks, you know, from octaves that are down at like 65 litres to barrels at 200.
Butts and puncheons at 500, the odd Madeira drum, 600 litres. We can only mature legally up to 700 litres, but every size was in that warehouse with painted ends. The ends are painted depending on the type of cask. You know, it looked like artist paint pots to me just visually. And then when I really got into the stock and realised, you know, we had everything from, you know, Virgin American oak to European oak.
To Port, Sherry, Madeira, Marsala, you know, the list could go on and on, all the different types of wine casks. Ex-bourbon being the main, of course, but yes, the most eclectic cast collection in Scotland, I think.
JAMES ATKINSON: Was that also a challenge though, I suppose, I gather that probably part of the remit was how do we get a bit of discipline around this and kind of focus it a little bit more, and what ultimately became the new core range, you know, with the rebranding and everything as well?
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, I mean it was like a bit like a box of chocolates. Like the biggest most variety of a box of chocolates and like you found one and you never knew if you’re gonna get it again so that’s the opportunity, but also the problem is that it becomes so niche that only like a small group of people get to try you know, something from one cask in one city of the world, one country.
So if you want to kind of open the doors to bring new consumers in, you’ve got to create whiskies that are delicious every time, that are sustainable, that people will grow to love. You know, it’s a totally different kind of business model because you want to, you know, create really versatile, interesting whiskies that are multi-layered and will stand the test of time.
So, so that was really my, my challenge.
JAMES ATKINSON: And you’ve been through a similar process now with Glenglassaugh as well. And I think some more, some more people are going to become increasingly familiar with that name.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, no, Glenglassaugh. I mean, that’s one of the reasons I’m, I’m here. The main reason I’m here in Australia and was on Bondi Beach just yesterday.
We’re launching the new Glenglassaugh range, and it is definitely the most atmospheric experience I have ever had. Because sitting in that restaurant, Icebergs, I think it was, and I was sitting there and I was thinking it’s like that sound has been created specially for us. But it was nature. It was the sound of the waves crescendoing and rolling as we were tasting the whisky.
The windows open, the smell of the sea air and Glenglassaugh just absolutely coalesces with the taste of the coast. So definitely my, my best experience ever. But with Glenglassaugh, what I wanted to do was to really amplify that coastal experience through the taste so that anyone in the world, if you’re at the coast, of course it’s going to coalesce, it’s going to be beautiful, you’re just going to think it was made to be wherever you are in the world.
If you’re in land, you’re gonna, you know, you’re gonna wish you were at the coast when you have a taste of Glenglassaugh. So yeah, it’s, it’s very distinctively different from the other two. It’s unique, I think, in the, in the Scotch whisky industry. I think it’s unique in the world because it’s just like a beautiful coastal elixir.
It’s so lush. The time is right for Glenglassaugh. This is Glenglassaugh’s time to shine. The stock profile was very chequered in that there was a 22-year hiatus gap in the whisky, so we’ve got some very old Glenglassaugh and then there was stock from, really from 2009 on but not much stock. So what I really wanted to do was reach the point that we could launch a 12 year old age statement in conjunction with two expressions which are called Sandend and Portsoy, named after the locations in which the distillery resides, and they would really bring to life the intensity of flavour in both of those locations.
So, what I went about doing was looking at, well, firstly at Sand End and Portsoy, creating whiskies that, with Sand End, reminded me of my childhood memories surfing on the beach, and the lush sweetness of the the sweet air. We, we have a plant called gorse that grows right beside the distillery that’s almost like cocoa butter and coconut, and it blooms.
It’s not all year round, but most of the year, and this smell I just love, and somehow it gets into the whisky and I wanted to really amplify that, along with the, the lovely salted caramel that comes through in Glenglassaugh, which is really, really unusual. So the way I did that was to select stock and to mature it in first fill bourbon, also some oloroso sherry, but in particular, the big mark I made on it was sourcing Manzanilla casks, which are the only sherry in Jerez, in, in Andalusia, which is 100 percent made, matured, everything at the coast, Sanlúcar de Barrameda. So, with Glenglassaugh, I’m sourcing coastal casks, to really, you know, grows in a similar place, goes with the, the whisky. So, the Manzanilla casks bring out more of that salted caramel, so I could try and make the most lush, vibrant coastal Malt and Sandend.
With Portsoy, Sandend’s the beach, where the distillery is. Portsoy is an ancient harbour, just like a stone’s throw away. And it’s a harbour town, so Lots of fishing. The main fish, actually, there is soy which has much, multiple meanings, but it’s like cod or pollock fish. hapuku, I think you call it here.
RACHEL BARRIE: And that’s what grows in the sea at Portsoy. And I wanted to create a whisky that had that more savory element to it, that was a bit more salty, but also kept the fruit. So like charred mango, throwing food on the barbie. So it’s like being out at sea or, brilliant with coastal food, absolutely delicious with, you know, langoustine or scallops or whatever, it’s got that real, authentic harbour coastal taste.
So, yeah, when I came here and I saw Bondi Beach, Sydney Harbour, I did actually think of Sandend and Portsoy. You know, similar vibe. And then Glenglassaugh at 12 is sherry, bourbon and red, coastal red wine casks. And that brings out more of the real stewed fruit, that luscious, almost like candied pistachio as well.
Which I particularly like. So yeah, that’s the range. That’s the new range just being launched.
JAMES ATKINSON: Really interesting hearing, I’ve never ever heard anyone talk about sherry that has a Maritime influence before, that’s a first for me. That doesn’t really get used much in Scotch whisky.
RACHEL BARRIE: Manzanilla, I mean, some other distillers have experimented with it, however, I think in Sand End, it just is synchronicity, you know, the flavours harmonise so beautifully.
So it might not fit as well with other distillery characters, you know, it’s just something that works for Glenglassaugh extremely well, you know, when it’s on the coast.
JAMES ATKINSON: Do you have a particular approach or philosophy to blending and curating the whiskies, generally speaking?
RACHEL BARRIE: Yes, I do. I mean, it’s very much, I suppose because of experience, I’ve experimented with a lot of different casks, a lot of different distillates, over the past nearly 32 years, and I kind of know what works. So my philosophy is, I suppose, a bit like being a really experienced teacher. You know, I want to bring out the best in that spirit, in a very distinctive way that is true to that individual. So, you know, I’m not making it go in a direction it doesn’t want to go in.
I’m not forcing. I’m, I’m taking basically What I can see, or sense, is the character, obviously, often still, and then shaping that in harmony with the character. So, when you taste the three malts, you know, Glendronach, Glenglassaugh, and Benriach, you know, you’re going to think they are completely different, distinct individuals, where that very distinctive character has been allowed to shine.
JAMES ATKINSON: You obviously have quite a profound sensory ability and I love hearing the way that you talk about whisky and the different characters that you speak about so evocatively. To what extent is that something that you’ve learnt and to what extent is that having the gift?
RACHEL BARRIE: I’m learning all the way. Learning, learning.
Anyone can do this, you know, if you’ve got a sense of smell.
JAMES ATKINSON: I’m sure there’s some natural ability there as well.
RACHEL BARRIE: Well, I think we’re all different, first and foremost, so our olfactory epithelium, which is the top of our nose, only one centimetre squared, it’s an incredibly complex sensor, and, you know, you do find, for some people, might, 10 percent of the population, for example, can’t pick up phenol, which is in peated1 whisky.
You know, so, you have to be aware of human variation when you’re blending, but what you do has to be representative of, let’s say, 90 percent of the population. So that 90 percent of the population, when you write tasting notes, when you’re creating a recipe, you know, they’re going to get it, they’re going to get it.
There’s going to be 10 percent that will sense things a little bit differently, just because of physiology, and there’s some people who are going to be, you know, super, super sensitive to certain notes more than others. For example, with lactones, you know, my, what I perceive as peach, somebody else might perceive as coconut.
And that’s just because of your, of that olfactory epithelium at the top of your nose and how that interacts. You know, it’s, it’s physiology at the end of the day.
JAMES ATKINSON: It’s also partly about personal experience and, you know, the cultural, you know, where you were brought up. Yeah. And what your cues are going to be for different notes as well.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, I think calibration is key. So, training your nose. is the most important thing, so just being aware, being mindful you know, literally stopping and smelling the whisky, you can never stop, you can never sell enough whisky and obviously, you know, even when I get off a plane, I’m very sensitive to what are the smells in this place, different parts of the world, I’m going to pick up different aromas.
Even the whisky I find smells different in different environments. You know, literally stopping and smelling the whisky or, you know, everything around you, being mindful. It’s a very underutilised sense, our sense of smell, but it’s definitely the most evocative and it enriches your experience of life.
When you’re able to spend the time, and obviously I do this a lot, so I’m very fortunate to be able to have the time in my role to stop and allow the aromatics when I nose a cast to interweave with my thoughts, my feelings, my memories, my emotions, my stories, to create stories and to, to bring that to life for the consumer.
But yeah, anyone can train the nose. Anyone, everyone.
JAMES ATKINSON: Have there been any particular people that you’ve worked with that have had a big influence on you from a mentoring kind of perspective?
RACHEL BARRIE: Well, I think the biggest influence was just when I started in the industry. So the late, great Dr. Jim Swan, who is renowned because in his laterally in his career, he went around setting up lots of distilleries around the world, helping people to, to build, to decide on what the quality was, but right at the start of my career, he actually gave me the job when I got out of university.
I worked with him at the Scotch Whisky Research Institute for just under four years, but then I continued to work with him after that because he, he left that institute and then he started, you know, sourcing casks and, and looking at wood and maturation. So I did a lot with Jim and he had, I call him the Albert Einstein of whisky because he just looked into nature so deeply and he just got it.
He could perceive, great nose, incredible chemist, and he could just join it all up with an understanding of human psychology and, you know, really what the nose knows, if you know what I mean. The nose knows when something’s good, that becomes very intuitive. But to get there you have to learn the theory, you have to understand people, and then develop the skills.
So, his approach absolutely rubbed off on me. You know, his approach continues through me to this day.
JAMES ATKINSON: You were the first female master blender of a Scotch distillery and the first woman to be inducted into the Scotch Whisky Hall of Fame. Remarkable achievements, you know, do you feel like a trailblazer for other women in the industry?
RACHEL BARRIE: Look, you know, I’m just doing I what I love with a passion. I just You know, I can’t say any more. If that opens the door to other women to come into the industry, which I hope it has, and I think it has, you know, that’s great. That’s absolutely brilliant, because the more diverse our industry, the better, because, you know, the consumer is very diverse nowadays.
I think here in Australia, there’s like 40 percent scent of Scotch drinkers are actually female. So, you know, for that reason, I think, You know, I was around at the right time, the right place, had the right skills to blaze a trail, if you want to call it that. And then hopefully that’s helped open the door to, to getting this, to bringing more women into the industry, both as consumers and working too.
JAMES ATKINSON: What’s coming up in terms of new products and innovations from, from your, from your distilleries?
RACHEL BARRIE: How exciting.
JAMES ATKINSON: The ones that you can tell me about.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, well, as you can probably guess. You know, back in 2020, I was a big part of the team to relaunch the Benriach range. So it was kind of the first one that I worked on to develop the new range and shape the portfolio and then moved on to Glenglassaugh and obviously that’s what we’re launching right now in this year.
So you can guess what’s next. Glendronach is gonna, you know, I always give Glendronach probably the lion’s share of attention to be honest, just because sherry cask maturation is such a rich and intense contribution to flavour and it needs a lot of time and dedication to kind of master the art. So, Glendronach at the moment is taking up a lot of my time as I look ahead to the portfolio of the future.
So, there are going to be, next year, 2024 is going to be a big year for Glendronach.
JAMES ATKINSON: What do you drink for enjoyment other than whisky?
RACHEL BARRIE: Other than whisky, I do like wine, that’s probably the next to, to whisky I would say, yeah. And I like, I like, you know, a variety of wine, I like to dabble, I like to try different wines from, from different, from different countries.
I quite like an Australian Shiraz, Barossa Valley wine, quite enjoy that. So, yeah, wine I think has that similar, you know, natural produce. It’s very distinct of its terroir, of where it’s made in the world. And you have this, you know, beautiful variety of naturally fermented product from effectively one ingredient, you know, from grapes versus malted barley, you know, so yeah, wine.
JAMES ATKINSON: Have you had much of a chance to taste any Australian whiskies yet? I’ve tasted, I mean, I’ve been at a few events since I’ve been here. I’ve been here one and a half weeks so far. I was in New Zealand first and then Australia and I think it was in Melbourne a couple of the distillers came to an event that I was hosting from Sullivan’s Cove Hobart, I think, and Starward.
So they brought some samples along for me to try and yeah, it was very palatable. Young, I would say but new emerging distilleries. And definitely I, I sensed a different character. Absolutely. From the distilleries that I work for. So. You know, very fruity and the influence of the wood really shone through.
So time will tell how they will, you know, how they will mature and what shape they will take. So I’m, I’m curious to, to watch and to, to keep tasting them.
Do you get exposure to a lot of other? Genres of whisky and even other spirits through the Brown-Forman network?
RACHEL BARRIE: Absolutely. Obviously with Jack Daniel’s, you know, I’ve tasted, you know, the rye, the different mash bills that have been used there. Similarly for Woodford Reserve.
JAMES ATKINSON: Jack Daniel’s has got a new single malt out, I believe.
RACHEL BARRIE: Single malt, yeah, which is very different again. And so yeah, I keep up with, with that. And then obviously I get first pick of the casks as well when they’re dumped, for the single malt, so very lucky to have that synergy.
But then I’ve also, you know, in my career, tasted a lot of, you know, whiskies from Canada, also from Japan, from all over the world, actually, at various stages in my career, so it’s just like traveling, you know, you get, you know, to get to know the differences in cuisine, and landscape, and people’s cultures.
You know, for me, getting to taste whiskies from all around the world, they do have those nuances as well, which I absolutely love. You know, it’d be boring if they were all the same.
JAMES ATKINSON: Actually, I’d love to hear what you think of the Jack Daniel’s single malt, because we haven’t had an opportunity to taste it yet here in Australia.
RACHEL BARRIE: Yeah, yeah, it’s good. It’s good. You know, you taste more of that kind of intense fruitiness that you get in Jack Daniel’s.
JAMES ATKINSON: So it takes you to Tennessee, you know, like you kind of know that you’re drinking a Tennessee whiskey.
RACHEL BARRIE: Exactly. You still know it’s very much from the, obviously the maturation’s faster, the environment’s different, et cetera.
So everything makes a difference. Everything makes a difference.
JAMES ATKINSON: But it’s sort of, you know, very dynamic industry we find ourselves in now, isn’t it? You know, when we’ve got the likes of JD introducing a single malt.
RACHEL BARRIE: It’s very, very dynamic. Oh my goodness. I mean, it just keeps getting better and better, you know, and I think there are so many curious explorers now especially millennials, you know, much more curious than I was at that age, or just maybe because there’s more variety available, probably, but, you know, willing to try, you know, such a diverse range of whiskies.
It’s just, you know, it’s like the diversity of food now that you have, you know, whereas when I was a child, it was really quite boring what was available. So now I would say up and coming emerging consumers, you know, they are spoilt for choice, but they’re very curious to try things out, you know. And to expand their palate, expand their experience, you know, travel the world, you know, and enrich their lives, you know, and good on them.
JAMES ATKINSON: Well Rachel, thanks so much for taking the time to have a chat with us on the show and really hope you enjoy the rest of your time in Sydney.
RACHEL BARRIE: My pleasure. It’s been fun. Thanks for having me.
